Breeding the Lines, a Successful Long-term Strategy ~ Part Three

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by John Fetters

© 2010 Fetters Setters, all rights reserved

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Have you ever given any thought to why there is such a wide variance in uniformity of English Setters from within the same litter?

Over the past 20 years I have noticed these differences cropping up at an alarming rate. The differences in size and weight, length of coupling, length of tail, ear set, head conformation, eye and nose pigmentation, etc., just to name a few.

Now, while we are only addressing the above mentioned differences at this time, these outer differences also genetically carry over into the scheme of things in regards to the hunting qualities as well, and will be addressed later.

I have always said, anyone can breed a male to a female canine and produce a litter of pups and consider themselves breeders just because they had success in doing so. This natural act happens all the time between male and female strays and I wonder which one considers themselves to be the breeder, the male, or the female?

The popularity of a breed or particular strain as well as a particular color from within a breed or strain has always been the determining factor of milking the life's blood out of quality genetically sound breeds of dogs.

A prime example of this started in the early 1970s and was carried out until the mid-1970s with English Setters. During that time period, white and orange setters became the rage and setters that were perfect Orange Beltons were priced higher than their white and orange littermates. Everyone wanted white and orange setters, especially perfect Orange Beltons.

The first to cash in on this breeding practice were individuals who knew that breeding two white and orange setters together always produced white and orange offspring. Once word got out, self-proclaimed breeders were cropping up all over the country overnight to get on the bandwagon to capitalize on this golden opportunity.

While this type of breeding was heavily capitalized on by the inexperienced and unknowing as a golden opportunity to make money, it created a nightmare in reference to the genetic quality of the resultant offspring being produced.

Breeding white and orange setters generation after generation brought about many genetic problems, unseen problems that were tucked away and hidden, just waiting to surface in future generations of breeding.

The same is true in regards to setter breeding programs that line breed the same bloodlines using the same genetic influence time and time again, generation after generation after generation.

Good sound quality line breeding is a basis for setting up the blue-print for the direction you want your breeding program to go in reference to such things as health, conformation, size, weight, coupling, bird sense, stamina, etc.

You can only get so many miles of success from line-breeding, once you reach that peak the genetics begin to go in reverse and this is when breeders begin to run into those hidden genetic health issues along with the wide variances in the uniformity of dogs from with-in the same litter. Continue on the same course using the same genetics from with-in the same or similar bloodlines for too long, breeders will face disaster.

Through the years I have heard it all in reference to breeding and the quick-fixes breeders are undertaking to try to solve the ongoing problems they encountered along the way.

As an example to one such "Quick-Fix" a breeder from Idaho states they have searched for years for an Old-Fashioned type Llewellin setter of good size with good conformation to breed to one of their best female setters. Upon finally locating such a dog to use as a stud, they state in their advertising that they "think" this will be a good breeding.

While this breeder's statement may sound appealing to the otherwise unknowing perspective purchasers of pups from that breeding, it does not prove anything in regards to what the actual genetic attributes of the resultant litter will be.

When a breeder makes such a statement based only on what they "think" the litter will be without first holding onto the entire litter for six months to a year to evaluate the qualities of each individual pup on "wild" game before placing them with new owners, all the breeder knows is that his female produced a litter sired by a good looking Old-Fashioned type Llewellin setter stud dog and (hopefully) they were all sold. This feat being based far more on old-fashioned hype than actual knowledge and experience in consistently turning out fine setter shooting dogs.

While this particular breeder is also one of those who claim to have studied all the pedigrees of the setters George Ryman used in his breeding program enough to understand what it takes to replicate similar setters to those Ryman produced ~ while actually having none of his present stock having consistent uniformity of conformation nor even appearing similar to the outstanding setters bred by George Ryman personally ~ they should give some thought to the following quote from George Ryman himself:

"Now that we are in the middle of the Century, after an elapse from 1925 up to 1940, a period of 15 years. I again saw I would soon need a new cross of setter blood. While I did not like to go back to the inbreds, I was more than fortunate to secure by great luck a fine son of Champion Sports Peerless.

"I then considered the cost and the time and labor it would take to breed several litters of puppies from the fine combination I had bred. So I took on the great task and it was a Golden chance I took but it has paid the expected dividends in at last getting a better setter dog on gamebirds, yet with such strong healthy supreme type shooting dogs. After I first tested experience with the Sports Peerless cross puppies raised till a year old, many were brilliant shooting dogs on game with very little work.

"Again there is proof in the natural instinct of a far more stronger quality produced. When you study the pedigree's down I was wise to always use the best bitches that could be bred, which were highly trained on game and shot over heavily. So if I had ten generations of nothing but the best bitch blood, no weeds, bred over to the Sports Peerless cross, I was able to hold to the level bird finding pointing instinct brain with true beautiful English setter type with such color and coat."

There are no shortcuts or quick-fixes when it comes to breeding great shooting dogs. It takes time, and what I mean by time doesn't mean breeding sire's to dams that are only hunted on weekends or two weeks straight during the season on a mix of preserve birds coupled with a few wild birds thrown in along the way.

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Greatness in setter shooting dogs comes to the surface when they are developed from the ground up through test breeding and the evaluation process on wild game on a daily basis and should therefore be the determining factor when selecting the breeding stock for any breeding program.

If a setter is not blessed with wild bird "savvy" his or her best genetic traits are never shown nor passed on to his or her offspring, and if these genetic traits are never shown, those traits will never be appreciated because they will never in fact exist.

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Breeding the Lines, a Successful Long-term Strategy ~ Part Two

by John Fetters
© 2010 Fetters Setters, all rights reserved

George H. Ryman shooting over Ryman's Birdy Anne,

a 47-pound short-coupled Setter considered to be

the "perfect Ryman Setter" according to

George H. Ryman's standards and ideals.

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Breeding quality setters is more involved than just planning a breeding between a sire and dam and being dependent on a pedigree alone, especially when a breeder pays too much attention to the ancestry back beyond the third generation and off the right edge of the pedigree.

Mistakes are also made when a breeder plans a breeding around a pedigree based on the looks of the sire and dam and hopes these two factors will far outweigh any problems cropping up in any of the off-spring along the way.

Anyone can breed dogs and produce litters. However the problem with such undertakings is that the breedings are based on producing high volume and making money instead of the long-range effects that will most certainly occur.

One of the most prevalent effects of this flawed breeding strategy I have noticed over the past ten years is the lack of uniformity of puppies from within same litter.

This predominatedly includes setters with differences in size, conformation, tail length (from very long to curled or sickle), undershot and overshot bite, as well as a lack in proper eye and nose pigmentation.

There is also an ongoing problem of Thyroid trouble with female setters as well as problems in male setters having only one testicle at maturity.

These problems are cropping up on an alarming rate due to un-informed and inexperienced breeders who just breed for whatever happens (breed "paper" rather than breed good gun dogs) for the sake of making money.

In his time, George H. Ryman bred, raised, and trained setters which suited his ideals of what he thought a setter shooting dog should be.

Ryman accomplished his goals through hard work and dedication to his setters on a full time basis. His daily routine revolved around his dogs with no other job standing in his way.

During the Ryman era of hands-on breeding, setters he selected for his personal shooting dogs were uniform in size, weight, and conformation. His personal preference for males was 50 to 55 pounds and females 45 to 50 pounds, short to medium coupling, proper length of tail, correct eye and nose pigmentation as well as good coat length and color.

These ideals were based on his famous male grouse and woodcock setter shooting dog, Ryman's Racket Boy and his famous female grouse and pheasant setter shooting dog, Ryman's Birdy Anne (shown above in photo in the field with George H. Ryman). These two setters were the "perfect Ryman Setters," according to George Ryman.

Today we see individual breeders grasping at straws in an attempt to promote and sell a setter using the Ryman label, using labels such as "Ryman Style," "Ryman Type," etc.

These breeders' ideas of quick fixes are to rely too much on looks and pedigrees alone, coupled with using modern day bloodlines that in no way come close to any of the bloodlines Ryman had at his disposal.

Another idea some of these breeders employ is to go the route of trying to achieve overnight success through bringing in outside bloodlines of the American Llewellin Setter in an attempt to scale down the cumbersome oversized setters in their line- breeding programs.

Again, this is just breeding "paper," for whatever happens and ~ does not solve the ongoing problems that already exist from within the lines. This is not a serious dedication to breeding quality setters by any stretch of the imagination.

Again, it is no more than simply grasping at straws to promote a product overnight for the sole purpose of selling that product to the unknowing purchaser.

Unfortunately this include the breeders who are out there offering puppies at astronomical prices ~ breeders who aren't concerned with quality breedings, but rather who are more concerned with well-financed and well-publicized marketing adventures to make money.

Good breeding doesn't happen overnight by throwing a male and female setter together to have litters, no matter what the "paper" trail behind them.

Good breeding takes time and patience and a willingness to test and re-test through repeat breedings, as well as holding onto the resultant offspring from those breedings to hunt over before one can say they achieved anything in regards to offering a quality setter shooting dog to the interested sporting public.

Breeding "perfection" ~ recent Fetters Setters litter

consisting of four Blue Belton and Tan-Ticked, three

Blue Belton and three Orange Belton ~ eight females,

two males ~ the Dam is a four-year-old perfect Orange

Belton, a mirror-image of Ryman's Racket Boy, George

H. Ryman's famous Grouse and Woodcock shooting dog

(all puppies have been spoken for, no inquiries, please)

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